by Alan J. Crivaro and Alan Slater

The late Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg once remarked, “Women belong in all places where decisions are being made. It shouldn’t be that women are the exception.” Including women in the male dominated legal profession and judiciary in Orange County has been a slow process of overcoming barriers.

Despite Orange County’s court system having been established in 1889, it took until 1947 before our first female judge, Celia W. Young Baker, was unanimously elected to the Huntington Beach City Court. She was elected to the newly created Municipal Court of West Orange County in 1953 and served with distinction until her retirement from the bench in 1972. Throughout her years of service, she never considered herself a trailblazer or was heard to complain of different treatment due to her gender.

Betty Lou Lamoreaux, our first superior court judge, was initially appointed to the municipal court in 1974 and later elevated in 1976. Her swearing-in ceremony was documented by a local newspaper in an article entitled, Skirts Beneath Black Robe . . . New Judge For Orange County. The first paragraph of the article commented upon her “becoming eye shadow and lipstick,” “striking earrings,” and “auburn hair that can be brushed into several styles.” Gratefully, most agree today that such headlines have no place in contemporary descriptions of a member of our judiciary.

Undoubtedly, much work remains in diversifying our judiciary and confronting our implicit biases. However, let us take the opportunity to celebrate and underscore the historical progress our legal community has made by recognizing three formidable women who form the leadership of our local judiciary. They are: the Honorable Kathleen E. O’Leary, Presiding Justice, Court of Appeal, Fourth Appellate District, Division Three (KO); the Honorable Maria D. Hernandez, Presiding Judge, Orange County Superior Court (MH); and the Honorable Cheri T. Pham, Assistant Presiding Judge, Orange County Superior Court (CP). We celebrate this “herstory” by interviewing them about their experiences.

Much has already been published about the great accomplishments and significant contributions these jurists have made on local, state, and national levels, not to mention the many deserving awards each has received. As an alternative to simply recounting their career highlights to date, we asked them to share a bit about their personal journeys and perspectives through a series of interview-style questions and answers.

What motivated your choice to become a lawyer?
KO: I originally thought I wanted to pursue a career in international relations, and I thought a legal education would be helpful. My second year of law school I participated in a legal clinic program that gave me the opportunity to be in the courtroom. That experience caused me to change directions and I decided I wanted to be a trial lawyer. In 1975, the only area of law that offered women a real chance at trial work was the criminal field.

CP: My choice to become a lawyer was profoundly influenced by the experiences and sacrifices of my parents, particularly my father’s unfulfilled dream of becoming a lawyer.

My family and I came to this country as refugees from Vietnam. My parents had immigrated once before from North Vietnam to South Vietnam in 1954 to escape the Communist regime. In 1975, my father, who had retired from the army, was working as a journalist and teacher to support our family of five, while putting himself through law school. When the Communists took over South Vietnam in 1975, my parents had to immigrate yet again. We arrived in the United States with nothing but the clothes on our back. My father became ill with severe depression and diabetes, rendering him unable to work, so that my mother had to go to work in a sweatshop and manufacturing company to support our family. My father eventually passed away without ever realizing his goal of becoming a lawyer.

My journey to become a lawyer is a tribute to my parents’ strength, sacrifices, and the enduring influence of my father’s unfulfilled ambition. It was my parents who instilled in me a deep sense of purpose and a commitment to using my legal education to effect positive change and uphold justice.

Earlier in your career, all three of you served as Orange County deputy public defenders. Why did you choose to represent indigent clients?
KO: I liked the idea that I was representing clients who needed a lawyer and couldn’t afford one. I liked “leveling the playing field.” But I think what I liked most about being a deputy public defender was the comradery in the office. We were all united by the mission and we enjoyed a strong bond.

MH: The ability to serve others and give back has been a gift and privilege in my life that remains the guiding light in a wonderful journey both personally and professionally. Representing the indigent is fundamental to the functioning of our democracy. Assuring representation for every individual fosters a balanced and just society. I absolutely loved being a part of our democracy, often being a voice for those who didn’t have one. My entire life, I’ve enjoyed the work of getting in the trenches on ground level and trying to make a difference by creating better outcomes for the people in our community. I worked alongside of some of the brightest and most gifted lawyers while making lifelong friends whom I treasure today which truly made going to work every day a gift to me. I was told as a young kid, “You sure like to debate issues.” What better way to take that and turn it into advocacy in a courtroom? It was a dream job for me.

It has been said that only by empowering women will the legal professional truly be a meritocracy. Do you agree with that statement?
KO: I believe the legal profession will become more of a meritocracy as the profession becomes more diverse in every way.

MH: The concept of a system which recognizes that advancement, authority, or placement in a particular position being based on ability, talent, and performance is what we all want to see and be a part of. The legal profession historically was, if not exclusively—certainly predominantly, occupied by males, so yes . . . women need to be empowered, supported, and elevated by other women and men to encourage and motivate women who are incredibly qualified to serve in these leadership roles.

CP: Empowering women is crucial for the legal profession to become a meritocracy. Gender should not be a barrier to success in any field, including law. When women are empowered and given equal opportunities, it ensures that the legal profession benefits from diverse perspectives, talent, and leadership. This diversity enhances decision-making, promotes fairness, and creates a more inclusive environment where merit is the primary criterion for advancement, regardless of gender. It’s not only a matter of equality but also a way to strengthen the profession as a whole.

Did you have any local judicial role model(s) when you applied for the bench?
MH: I have been so incredibly blessed to be surrounded by amazing role models whom I continue to look to for guidance and mentorship. We have an icon like Justice O’Leary, right here in our own backyard who has not only been a trailblazer in her career first as a public defender but then on the bench. She sets the standard for all of us on a personal level as a humanitarian. She literally has made a difference for so many individuals. She has been a mentor and dear friend for many years. She has been a presence in my life since the moment I applied and through the years navigating my next steps, especially these last years in a leadership role. I am also mindful of the amazing leadership presented in our California Supreme Court with Chief Justice Guerrero and—before her—Chief Justice Cantil-Sakauye. Both of them blasted through glass ceilings and paved the road for so many of us.

Have you observed a change in the legal profession’s perception of women in the judiciary over the course of your career?
KO: With more women taking the bench, and doing a good job, the more acceptance there is of women judges. I look forward to the day when people think of me as just a judge and not a woman judge.

CP: Over the course of my career, I have observed a noticeable change in the profession’s perception of women in the judiciary. Initially, there were prevalent stereotypes and biases that undermined the capabilities of women in this role. However, there has been a significant shift towards a more inclusive and equitable perspective. Today, women in the judiciary are increasingly recognized for their competence, dedication, and their ability to make fair and impactful decisions. This shift in perception is a result of a collective effort to challenge gender stereotypes, promote diversity, and encourage women’s participation in the legal profession. As a result, women are gaining more respect and recognition for their contributions, and their gender is becoming less of a defining factor in the profession’s perception of their abilities. It’s a positive development that reflects the progress we’ve made towards a more inclusive and fair legal system.

You have been recognized as possessing all the qualities of a great leader who is engaged in trying to improve the court system and access to justice. What are the qualities you feel make you a leader?
KO: I try to set goals and develop strategies to accomplish those goals. I think I have good people skills, so I work hard to build consensus. I try to be honest and transparent in what I want to accomplish, and I am open to modifying the plan when necessary. I value teamwork and I work hard to be a dependable and reliable teammate. Chief Justice Ronald George told me “O’Leary” means herdsman, and he thought that was my management style. I don’t need to be up front and visible, I just set the direction, round people up, and head them out while working to keep the stragglers from getting lost. It doesn’t sound very glamorous, but I think it does describe me. I just like getting the goal accomplished.

MH: I have been so fortunate to serve in leadership roles for the court and afforded the opportunity to work with amazing people who are dedicated to improving our system and providing access to justice for everyone. One of my favorite parts of the job is to convene groups and collaborate. No doubt tough decisions must be made. Building relationships and being able to access the foundational information to make the “right” decision is critical. Building the trust, credibility, and confidence with those around you is key in making your leadership calls.

In addition to your service as a jurist, you have held and presently hold leadership positions in the judiciary. Have you experienced any additional challenges in leadership because of your gender not experienced by your male counterparts?
CP: As an Asian woman in a leadership role within the judiciary, I have faced additional layers of complexity and challenges related to both gender and ethnicity because Asian women are generally perceived to be sweet, docile, and incapable of becoming leaders. This intersectionality has sometimes made it even more challenging to navigate implicit biases, stereotypes, and perceptions of leadership. For example, I’ve sometimes found myself interrupted more often than my male counterparts, or addressed by my first name while my male colleagues are addressed as Judge So-and-so. I’ve also encountered situations where my authority or qualifications were questioned not only because of my gender but also due to racial biases.

Despite these challenges, I have embraced my unique perspective as an Asian woman in leadership, using it as a source of strength and resilience. By breaking down these barriers, I hope to pave the way for more diversity and inclusion in the judiciary, showing that women of all backgrounds can be successful leaders and contribute to a more equitable legal system.

As a female judge and legal trailblazer, what advice would you give to young, female lawyers to succeed in their careers?
KO: Actions speak louder than words. Work hard and do your job to the best of your ability. There are no shortcuts. Don’t think “knowing the right people” is a substitute for proven excellence. Excellence will be noticed and appreciated.

MH: It’s important to follow your dreams and understand there have been and will be barriers or resistance to a female stepping into leadership roles but utilize that as fuel to your fire and allow it to motivate you and others around and inspire the work you do. Find the men and women to surround yourself with, and they are out there, that will face the challenges with you and overcome them.

CP: I would offer the following advice to young, female lawyers aspiring to succeed in their careers:
(1) Believe in Yourself: Have confidence in your abilities and know that you deserve a place at the table. Your skills, knowledge, and dedication are valuable contributions to the legal profession. (2) Seek Mentors and Allies: Find mentors, both male and female, who can provide guidance, support, and insights from their experiences. Allies can help amplify your voice and advocate for your advancement. (3) Embrace Continuous Learning: The legal field is constantly evolving. Stay informed about legal developments, seek opportunities for further education, and be open to new challenges. (4) Network and Build Relationships: Establish connections within the legal community. Networking can lead to valuable opportunities and partnerships that can aid in your career progression. (5) Balance Work and Life: Prioritize work-life balance to maintain your well-being and prevent burnout. It’s crucial for long-term success and happiness. (6) Advocate for Yourself: Don’t be afraid to assert yourself and make your career goals known. Speak up for the assignments, promotions, and opportunities you desire. (7) Challenge Stereotypes: Break free from gender and cultural stereotypes. Show through your achievements that women from all backgrounds can excel in the legal profession. (8) Support Other Women: Lift as you climb. Be a source of support for other female lawyers, helping them overcome obstacles and succeed in their careers. (9) Stay Resilient: You will face obstacles and setbacks, but resilience is key. Learn from challenges and use them as stepping stones toward your goals. (10) Be a Trailblazer: Don’t be afraid to challenge the status quo. As a female lawyer, you have the potential to be a trailblazer in the legal profession, opening doors for future generations of women.

By following these principles, you can not only succeed in your legal career but also contribute to the advancement and empowerment of women in the field.

How do you balance work and personal life responsibilities? What is the best way to manage your career?
KO: I work hard and I play hard. But I honestly have to say, work wins out sometimes when there isn’t time for both. They do say if you find a job you love, you’ll never work another day in your life.

MH: The work/life balance is critical. Most of our jobs are intense and require a lot of time and dedication which often takes us away from our families and loved ones. Making sure to find the “sweet spot” and give yourself the time away helps to strike that balance. For me, spending time with my grandkids is the release valve and highway to happiness. I’d say watching my favorite football team is helpful. It’s hard being a loyal Charger fan and not having anxiety watching those games, so this season in particular isn’t the most promising for stress release.

As we reflect on our shared history as members of the Orange County legal community, it is appropriate to celebrate that we have these talented legal minds leading our court system. That they happen to be women speaks to social progress in recognizing merit over gender. Their constant commitment to improving access to justice for the community we serve is to be celebrated. Their individual stories should inspire all of us to rededicate ourselves to the highest standards of the legal profession.

Alan J. Crivaro is a criminal defense attorney in Newport Beach. He can be reached at acrivarolaw@hotmail.com. Alan Slater Slater is CEO of Orange Court Superior Court, Retired. He can be reached at alanslater8@gmail.com.